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#1 yerfdog3

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 02:22 AM

Hi guys,
My 310,000Klm 5EFE engine has dropped its bundle and I am trying to figure out what to replace it with.
I basically i want a reliable car with good economy.
I have been reading the forum on turbos but am starting from the bottom
Wanting to keep the car an automatic, with air-con, i have a few questions.

Can I 4EFTE it or i it not advisable with auto?
Can I 4EFE with out to much bother and will that be enough power?
When i buy an engine do i have to get an auto engine only?
Thanks

#2 AndrewC

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:27 AM

The Sera should have a 5E-FHE and I have several of those available.

Otherwise a 5E-FE can be fitted, from a Paseo or Cynos but you will have to use the Sera distributor and injectors with the Sera ECU.

I wouldn't bother with a 4E-FE, they can be fitted but they are down on power and will have to work hard to give even average performance, resulting in poor economy.

A 4E-FTE can be fitted gives more performance, and gives real world economy figures similar to the 5E-FHE engined. You can fit with the automatic gearbox.

If you want reliability and economy, fitting a replacement 5E-FHE is the best bet as there are no modifications required. If you want performance, 4E-FTE or build a 5E-FTE.

1992 Toyota Sera ph3 ï1977 Lancia Montecarlo ï 1999 TVR Chimaera ï 2005 Fiat Ducato Motorhome ï Norwich Photo Motorsport Photography ï Racing Exposure ï Facebook ï Twitter ï Instagram


#3 AndrewC

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:27 AM

Graham has just done a 4E-FTE install in his Sera, retaining auto transmission, so there is Australian knowledge on the process. He's going through the engineering certification stage at the moment.

1992 Toyota Sera ph3 ï1977 Lancia Montecarlo ï 1999 TVR Chimaera ï 2005 Fiat Ducato Motorhome ï Norwich Photo Motorsport Photography ï Racing Exposure ï Facebook ï Twitter ï Instagram


#4 yerfdog3

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 02:17 AM

Thanks Andrew, I'm in Melbourne Australia so shall contact Graham for advice. 4EFTE sounds like the way to go.

#5 Graham

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 07:00 AM

Hi Peter,

hopefully I can help answer some of your burning questions. :)

I picked up a Sera which already had an automatic turbo engine, so my job may be easier than the usual route...

What I do know is that the GT's Auto box is different to a Sera - it is electronically controlled by the ECU and the ECU has 3 plugs as opposed to the 2 plug ECU-wiring that is common between the Sera and Manual GT's.
So, you would be better off with a 4EFTE engine from a manual GT, but if you get an Auto one, you'll need a manual ECU anyway. Also, you'd be able to sell a manual transmission easier than an auto trans I think. :)

I don't think I've driven more than 100km yet, so can't comment on reliability of the auto trans with the turbo, but I know I'm not the first and I haven't heard of any catastrophes.
It does drive fine. I'm only running 5psi (low boost) currently. Normally the RPMS reach about 3000 and the car just accelerates solidly. I have had wheel spin going around a corner and everything feels normal to me no matter how I drive it.
Even though it's only on low boost, it's got the same power at any engine speed that the original engine had at 5,000rpm and above. It's not fast but moves along nicely.
I'm looking forward to the high boost setting :)

I have retained the Sera's AC compressor, and it's mounting bracket, to avoid re-gassing the system. Also kept the alternator to keep the same plug. Using either of these might have been an option.
But the power steering pump from the 4EFTE is needed to clear the air intake piping off the turbo and to keep the use of the 4EFTE's tensioner.

Next important factor is space.
The top mount intercooler makes the engine package taller than a Sera's engine bay and the bonnet doesn't close.
I've got spacers/packers/washers on the hinge bolts for the bonnet, raising it by an inch at the back. This has done the trick and will hopefully pass an engineers inspection. Once I've got the certification, I'll convert to a front mount intercooler and return the bonnet to normal.

The distance from the turbo & piping to the radiator is about 3cm max. Have a look at some pics in my recent thread. This is adequate, but if you want more, one consideration is a half width radiator and separate oil cooler. This gives another 3 or 4cm clearance for future manifold, turbo or piping upgrades :), but still leaves the AC's condensor/radiator taking up some realestate. If you can do away with the AC, front mount intercooler upgrade is much easier. If you just want a good, standard car, don't worry about this paragraph.

One thing to remember: A factory looking engine can pass certification easier than a modified one. Once it's engineered, you can relax and change things a little.

The mechanical side of the engine swap is straight forward, it's the same as swapping a standard motor in except for: extending one sensor's wires, changing plug on another sensor and getting the exhaust to mate up. I avoided the issue of the exhaust because my donor car was a Sera and the complete exhaust fit straight to mine. I doubt a starlet's would be an exact match and would need either modifying or replacing with a custom exhaust.

Having the original engine wiring loom to refer to, and steal wire from, was a help.

My biggest issue is that it took me 10 years to begin the turbo swap!

#6 Graham

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 07:06 AM

Andrew always gives good advice.
I'm backing him up on the - you would not like a 4EFE engine in your Sera. Our old 5EFHE didn't power the car too well with an Auto transmission - my wife's old car was a Mazda 121, auto with 1.3L and it seriously struggled to get up hills - eg: 5,000rpm in 2nd gear just to keep at 60kph. It's an 80 zone! Shift to 3rd and the speed dies.

:)

#7 AndrewC

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:30 PM

The Starlet 4E-FTE with the automatic box works ok and can be lightly tuned to around 180hp or so before the box gives trouble. The Starlet box is mostly the same but has a electronic overrides - a sport mode where it holds the revs a bit higher before it shifts and a winter mode. The automatic Starlet ECU has the additional wiring, but to swap all this into a Sera is quite a big job. Whilst I've never tried it personally, my theory was always automatic engine, using the Sera automatic box and manual Starlet ECU.

1992 Toyota Sera ph3 ï1977 Lancia Montecarlo ï 1999 TVR Chimaera ï 2005 Fiat Ducato Motorhome ï Norwich Photo Motorsport Photography ï Racing Exposure ï Facebook ï Twitter ï Instagram





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